1月17日，斯洛文尼亚总理亚内兹·扬沙（Janez Jansa）在接受印度媒体采访时，多次用“国家”指称台湾，并称斯洛文尼亚正与台湾洽谈互设“代表处”。

《华闻周刊》了解到，斯洛文尼亚总理的“涉台”言论发布后，不仅在国际社会中引发了强烈反应，更在斯洛文尼亚国内“一石激起千层浪”。

那么，斯洛文尼亚国内到底如何看待该言论？该言论是否意味着斯洛文尼亚对华外交政策的改变？就相关问题，斯洛文尼亚副总理兼经济发展和技术部部长兹德拉夫科·波契瓦尔舍克（Zdravko Počivalšek）接受了《华闻周刊》的专访。

斯洛文尼亚副总理兼经济发展和技术部部长兹德拉夫科·波契瓦尔舍克（Zdravko Počivalšek）

以下为采访实录：

《华闻周刊》：根据您所了解的情况来看，斯洛文尼亚总理亚内兹·扬沙的涉台言论能否代表斯洛文尼亚当前的主流政治思潮？

波契瓦尔舍克：斯洛文尼亚国内的政治理念、政党及其利益诉求千差万别。在宣布将通过开设“贸易代表处”来促进经济合作时，很多的误解产生了，但一些观点，其实并未在政府中讨论。

必须要指出的是，如果要做出这类决定，它必须要经过特定的程序，但据我所知，到目前为止，还没有任何指向这个方向的程序启动。在斯洛文尼亚共和国总统博鲁特·帕霍尔（H.E. Borut Pahor）的声明中也提到了这一点。

《华闻周刊》：对于总理的涉台言论，您个人有什么评论？

波契瓦尔舍克：由于历史发展进程的不同，在欧洲，人们可能会用不同的方式去看待这类事情。我在看待他表达的观点时，也会考虑到这个方面。正如我在最早的评论中所提到的，在国际关系中必须考虑到其他人的立场，最重要的是，必须考虑到经济层面的利益诉求。要做到这些，我们需要更加包容地去解决问题，因为冲突并不会带来更好的解决方案。可以预见的是，尽管出现了一些小的外交挫折，我们两国的关系仍将能成功发展。

国家之间一直存在着外交渠道，作为一个国家最高层的代表，我们有责任去运用外交渠道并通过它们来对话。发表个人观点，同样必须考虑到经济和政治的现实因素。

《华闻周刊》： 1月19日，中国外交部发言人赵立坚表示“一个中国的原则是中斯、中欧关系的政治基础”。在您看来，斯洛文尼亚总理近期的涉台言论是否会对中斯关系带来根本性的破坏？为什么？

波契瓦尔舍克：我理解中国的立场。“一个中国原则”是对华国际关系中公认的既定准则。对我来说，尊重不同观点，合作伙伴之间面对面地真诚沟通，是国际关系的基础。

我知道某些个人观点的确已经影响到了我们的关系，但我相信，我们不仅能够去解决这些问题，而且还能以此为动力进一步去增进两国一直以来的良好关系。据我所知，斯洛文尼亚在经济领域与中国一直保持着很好的合作，我们也有斯洛文尼亚-中国商业协会（Slovenian-Chinese Business Council），它与各方都定期保持着联系。因此，企业的确有机会向政治家表达他们的观点，而政治家则必须为企业创造良好合作的条件，这也一直是我工作的重点。

《华闻周刊》：据您的观察，近年来，中斯关系出现了哪些变化？在中斯关系中，最关键的共同利益点有哪些？您认为，在当前的形势下，两国可以通过哪些方式来改善和促进彼此之间的关系？

波契瓦尔舍克：中斯关系在整体上是好的。然而，在日常生活中，两个伙伴之间也会不时出现一些问题。固执的人，会将彼此的关系引向进一步的冲突甚至最终导致关系破裂，但有智慧的人则会去对话，去耐心地解决这些问题，并能够考虑到对方的出发点和观点。我相信，这次的情况也是如此。对我来说，在国际政治中，经济利益应该始终是一个最重要的考虑因素。我相信，我们两国合作中的共同利益，将最终占据上风。

《华闻周刊》：对于中斯关系的最终走向，您是否乐观？您认为，未来在哪些领域两国可以进一步深化合作，以便让我们所处的世界变得更好？

波契瓦尔舍克：是的，我对此持乐观态度。正如在中东欧国家“17+1倡议”会议上我与中国国家主席习近平在交谈中已经确定的那样，我们之间还有很大的增进合作的空间。在该会议上，斯洛文尼亚也一直是中国的一个积极的合作伙伴。我们可以在食品、医药、创新、绿色发展和基础设施等领域迅速扩大经济合作。斯洛文尼亚也可以在促进欧中关系方面发挥重要作用。

这次的误解也表明，在理解彼此的观点和避免误解方面，我们还需要做更多的工作。我们都已看到，全球化已推动了不同体系之间的日益融合，但与此同时，我们的认知能力还未能跟上，尤其是将现存的差异和彼此不同的出发点纳入自身考虑范围的能力，而这些差异和不同出发点都受到各自历史条件的制约。如果我们想要更快地取得进展，或者正如你在问题中提到的，让我们所生活的世界变得更美好，这一点以及宽容和开放，是必不可少的。

《华闻周刊》：除了以上的问题，您还有什么想要补充？

波契瓦尔舍克：在中国农历新年到来之际，我想向你们和你们亲爱的家人送上我最美好的衷心祝愿。祝你们幸福快乐相伴，兴旺繁荣相随。

附英文版采访实录：

The Chinese Weekly: Do the Prime Minister’s remarks represent the current mainstream political thoughts in Slovenia or just represent the interests of specific groups? 

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: Political ideas, parties, and interests in Slovenia differ in a thousand ways. By announcing the improvement of economic cooperation through the opening of trade representations, a lot of misunderstandings had occurred. Some views were not discussed within the government.

It should be understood that such decisions require certain procedures and, as far as I know, no procedure in this direction has been initiated. This was also stated by the president of the Republic of Slovenia H.E. Borut Pahor.

The Chinese Weekly: What are your comments on the Prime Minister’s remarks and plans? 

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: In Europe, we look at these things differently due to different historical developments. It is in this light that I look at the views he expressed. As I already stated in my first comment, the views of others and, above all, economic interests must also be taken into account in international relations. In doing so, things need to be resolved in a tolerant manner, as conflicts do not lead to better solutions. Our relations can conceivably be successful despite minor diplomatic setbacks. 

Diplomatic channels exist between countries and it is our duty, as the most senior representatives, to use them and converse through them. Personal views must also take into account economic and political realities.

The Chinese Weekly: On 19th Jan, China’s Foreign Ministry spokesperson Zhao Lijian said that ‘the one-China principle is the political foundation of China-Slovenia and China-Europe relations’. Do you think Slovenia’s recent policies regarding Taiwan will fundamentally damage the basis of China-Slovenia relations? Why?

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: I understand the Chinese position. The One-China Principle is an established and recognised norm in international relations with China. For me, respecting different views and sincere communication between partners, tête-à-tête, is the foundation of international relations. I am aware personal views have shaken up our relations, but I believe that not only that will we sort things out, but also that this will serve as an impetus for further improvement of the traditionally good relations we have. I know that the Slovenian economy cooperates excellently with China, and that there is also the Slovenian-Chinese Business Council, which has regular relations with all stakeholders, so it is right that businesses sometimes convey their opinions to politicians, while politicians must provide businesses with conditions for the excellent cooperation, which is always the focus of my work. 

The Chinese Weekly: Given your knowledge, how have the relations between Slovenia and China changed in recent years? What interests are most crucial in these relations? Under current circumstances, what should Slovenia and China do to fix their relationship?

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: The Slovenian-Chinese relations are good in principle. Problems, however, do occur in everyday life between two partners. Stubborn people take them towards further conflict or even break-up, while smart ones have a talk and patiently resolve them, taking into account where the other comes from and their views. I believe that this will also be the case this time. For me, economic interests are always paramount in international politics. I am convinced that mutual interest in cooperation will prevail. 

The Chinese Weekly: Are you optimistic about the future of China-Slovenia relations? What do you think will be the possible areas in which Slovenia and China can cooperate with each other to make our world a better place?

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: Yes, I am optimistic. As I and President Xi Jinping have already established in our conversation at 17+1 Initiative meeting, in which Slovenia of course remains an active partner, there is still a lot of room for even better cooperation. Economic cooperation can be rapidly expanded in areas such as food, medicine, innovation, green development, and infrastructure. Slovenia can also play an important role in promoting EU-China relations. 

This misunderstanding also shows that all of us need to do much more when it comes to understanding each other's views and avoiding such misunderstandings. We can all see that globalisation also leads to increasing convergence between systems. At the same time, we have not sufficiently developed our ability to understand and, above all, take into account the existing differences and starting points, which are also conditioned by history. This, as well as tolerance and openness, are essential if we want to make faster progress. Or, as you mentioned in the question, to make our world a better place. 

The Chinese Weekly: Is there anything you would like to add?

Minister Zdravko Počivalšek: My heartfelt and best wishes are with you all and your loving families throughout this Chinese New Year and always. Wishing you have all the joy and prosperity. 

文/采访 张雪

图片由斯洛文尼亚经济发展和技术部提供